SEPTEMBER 29, 2008 CITY COUNCIL MEETING
From listening to the Sept. 29, 2008 City Council meeting, a majority of the
City Council agrees the first step is to talk with the owners of the outdoor
wood boiler, and talk to them and tell them to stop burning garbage, and the
fact the smoke is causing a nuisance. The Mayor suggested the owners could add
a length of stack, to see if that would make a difference. Mike Wylie said from
his experience with a nearby OWB, a taller stack didn't necessarily help. But
several members agreed it would be a good first step to deal with the situation.
If the owner did not comply or the smoke was not less of a nuisance, then further
actions could be looked at. Here are the notes, transcribed from the taped Council
meeting which aired only once on October 9 on Comcast
cable access channel 16.
Minutes from City Council Meeting September 29, 2008
Present:
Jim Iund - Mayor
Jim Maranin - City Council member
Brad LeTourneau - City Council member
Mike Wylie - City Council member
Kristen Anderson - City Council member
Chantell Knauss - City Administrator
Rick Juba - Assistant City Planner
Bob Voss - City Attorney
Rick Juba : Thank you Mr. Mayor and members of the Council.
I believe many of you have received some letters on this issue, and maybe in
the
past.
The City staff has
received letters from 6 different residences stating that a particular outdoor
wood boiler in the city of Oak Grove is creating a public nuisance.
(at this point Council member Kristen Anderson leaves the meeting.)
An outdoor wood boiler is a heating device which is located outside the home.
You probably have seen them before, typically in a small metal shed type of building.
And what it does is burn wood which heats water which is piped into the home,
used for a heat source both for heating the home and possibly for heating the
potable water for that home as well.
Issues with these systems are that they create a lot of smoke and they are not
required to meet emission standards that other types of burning devices other
types of stoves are required to meet. So they do create a lot of smoke. The two
main issues with the OWB in question here in Oak Grove are that it burns all
year round, so the resident is using it to heat their potable water supply. And
that there is also accusations being made that they are burning materials other
than clean wood.
So it is creating a number of different situations, mainly during times of the
year when residents want to have their windows open the smoke creates an issue.
They have to close their windows. And that's mainly what we are hearing here
with this one.
This issue is not unique to the City of Oak Grove. It has been a hot button issue
here and there in other communities. Local examples are Forest Lake and Ramsey
which have adopted ordinances to regulate outdoor wood boilers. With that said,
although there is being complaints made only on one of the units in this City,
with heat prices, the use of these units is expected to grow.
We do need to address the nuisance issue here. As I said we have had complaints
from six different residences. However, we thought we'd take the opportunity
to hear from the Council How you would like this directed. If you would like
it looked at as a single case in which we would notify the property owner, that
the nuisance needs to be corrected. If not corrected a citation could be issued.
Or other things along those lines.
(Kristen comes back in)
So go the enforcement route or we could take what the staff would see as a more
progressive route and draft an ordinance regulating the use of these units. Other
communities have also banned these units outright. Staff does not believe this
is the way to go in Oak Grove being the lot size and the rural state of living
out here. We'd like to hear your thoughts on how to go about this.
Mayor Iund: I personally think that you need to contact the person who is burning
this stuff, send him a letter. Maybe a suggestion is for him to have him to add
onto his stack.
Rick: I'll add that as well, Mr. Mayor. The types of things that you would see
in an ordinance regulating the use of these would be stack height, setbacks,
and then also giving the building official or someone within the City the authority
to inspect what is being burned. So if you get these reports somebody burning
plastic or whatever it might be that other residences are saying, the City would
then have the authority to go onto the property and actually see for themselves
what is being burned.
Mayor Iund: I think we need to contact this gentleman and he might say "Come
on and see what I'm burning." But I'm not interested in an ordinance.
Mike Wylie: I do know there is one down road from me, it's probably about 2 blocks.
When the wind is heavy and thick with moisture, it really does smell up whole
neighborhood. I mean I'm far enough away it but I can still smell it pretty strongly.
It doesn't smell like a typical fire someone someone is having around a campfire
out back.
I don't think I want an ordinance against this either. However, considering if
he is burning year round, in the summer that might be something to consider,
maybe having it; realizing in the winter months a lot more people would be using
this and it probably doesn't bother people as much also.
Mayor Iund: Raising a stack might help.
Mike Wylie: And that might help, but the one down the road from me, the stack
is pretty darn high, too. It's usually when that heavy moist air, when the snow
melts in the Spring...
Brad LeTourneau: It draws everything back down to the ground.
Mike Wylie: Right, it just hovers there. In the winter months I can't imagine
it bothering too many people. But if he's burning it all summer and and spring
and stuff like that, and letting it smolder, it might be more of an issue that
time of year, especially if some people actually still hang clothing out to dry.
(laughter)
Mayor Iund: I think we need to contact that person and see...
Mike Wylie: We could start like easy like that, and see how it goes.
Kristen Anderson: Yep.
Chantell Knauss: Just so you know...
Brad LeTourneau: There are 6 properties though, that are being affected. I mean,
I'm all for personal property rights and everything, but if you can't keep it
on your property, then you've got a problem, you've got an issue. It IS a public
nuisance and has got to be addressed. I don't think we need to go out there and
start writing citations, but if he can't correct the problem-
Mayor Iund: If he is burning garbage or something or something then he needs
to stop.
Mike Wylie: It's probably worth checking into seeing what's going on first and
trying to handle it that way and seeing if the complaints settle down or are
persistent, it's probably worth going forward that way.
Brad LeTourneau: Just like about any other complaint that comes in, our mode
of compliance is complaint driven. Doesn't that automatically give us the authority
to go in and take a look at what he's burning on his property?
Lawyer and Mayor: No. It doesn't.
Brad LeTourneau: But if someone complains there is junk in a yard and it's a
mess, we have the authority to go on the property and verify if there's junk
on the property.
Mayor Iund: No.
Bob Voss, Lawyer: Mayor, council, the City inspector has a right to go
on
a property if they are invited to. Or if there is potentially an open violation
of a city law, that is a crime or a misdemeanor crime, and then you have the
right because there is a crime occurring, a misdemeanor occurring on a property.
Absent of those there is an administrative search warrant that can be obtained
from a judge. It's no different than a criminal search warrant.
That's said, while I'm talking Mayor, I just want to make clear, I've had some
experience with some of the other cities we've worked with. One approach that
plenty of cities have taken is that there is right of an action for private nuisance.
That is, private parties can always engage in claims that a neighbor is offending
them somehow or creating a nuisance. Individuals always have that right.
It's difficult frankly, for cities to get involved in those private disputes
just as a nuisance; and I don't mean just as a nuisance, but to but without any
outside standards, simply the city saying you are offending your neighbors and
we're going to do do something about it.
I think Rick- the Staff is coming forward to see whether you want to adopt specific standards
about this, and if you don't, I think we want you to understand that having the
City attempt to be the resolving agent can be difficult. That's fine as long
as long as you understand that indirection to the staff to investigate further
and get involved, we don't have that many tools to reconcile the conflict as
it is now.
Mike Wylie: Has anybody talked to this guy? He might not even know don't know
if sending a letter to the person, telling them about the complaint-
Chantell Knauss: My understanding is the property owners around this property
have attempted to work on this issue with him and he has not been receptive
at all.
Mayor Iund: I've driven by there twice and I didn't smell anything.
Chantell Knauss: The smoke is discharged in intervals, it doesn't
not discharged continuously. I believe it is every 15 - 20 minutes minutes. Somewhere
along
that...
Mayor Iund: I've got several of them over by me and I think if they're burning
wood I don't think they're offensive. But maybe someone else does.
Mike Wylie: Apparently 6 people do.
Mayor Iund: Well, there could be more to the story.
Mike Wylie: I've got a question. I've only seen one letter about this, and we've
had six complaints? Generally we get a complaint notice in our boxes there, and
the last one I saw-
Mayor Iund: It was a form letter 3 or 4 months ago.
Chantell Knauss: That's if a letter goes out to the property owner. These are
complaints coming in. The letter that you got was addressed specifically to you
and sent to you by the resident.
Kristen Anderson: You remember.
Mayor Iund: So we have direction.
Brad LeTourneau: Yep.
Mike Wylie: We can always revisit if we have to.
Mayor Iund: Next item.